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Disestablishing the Establishment Clause (edited for clarification)

So I just came across this:

It might actually have been on here, my brain's not working. Anyway, I'm mad enough about that, because really, Anthony Kennedy— sure it's not religious coercion by law. Not technically. But you don't think there's going to be an element of coercion in a room where everyone's praying but you? You don't think that will jeopardize the things citizens or representatives who don't pray are putting before local legislative bodies? REALLY?


But then I was led down the primrose internet path to this:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/05/ala…

And then I had a rage stroke. Justice Moore said:

"They didn't bring a Koran over on the pilgrim ship, Mayflower. Let's get real. Let's go back and learn our history."


Yes, Justice Moore, LET'S. Let's learn our history. Okay, so Jefferson said one day he thought the story of Jesus being born of a virgin would be regarded as as much of a fantasy as that of Minerva emerging from Jove's head. That's in our history. It happened. You know what else happened? One, Morocco was the first country to diplomatically recognize the United States. In 1787, we ratified a Treaty of Peace and Friendship with them. Our first diplomatic relationship as an independent nation was with a Muslim country. Ten years later, we ratified the Treaty of Tripoli, which stated:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


AS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT, IN ANY SENSE, FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION. In a treaty ratified by the US Congress in 1797. BAM. HISTORY. LEARN IT. John Adams begs to differ with your definition of the First Amendment, sir.

Also, while we're learning about history: what books may or may not have been on the Mayflower has exactly NOTHING to do with the United States government.


Also, if I hear one person on my wall complain about Christians being persecuted in the US, I might scream. And then tape the Treaty of Tripoli to their face.

ETA: As orionxl pointed out, I should clarify. First, the treaty with Morocco and the Treaty of Tripoli were separate (though the Treaty of Tripoli also included Morocco). The Treaty of Tripoli ended the First Barbary War, with what were then the Ottoman provinces of Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli, as well as with Morocco, which was independent. Until the Revolutionary War, US ships were under the protection of France, and when that protection ended, US ships in the Mediterranean started getting attacked by pirates from the Barbary States, and the sailors kidnapped and sold into slavery/held for ransom/tribute. Spain's advice was to just pay the tribute. The US was not super into this, however, so we had the First Barbary War. We had the earlier treaty with Morocco as they were the first to decide fighting a war wasn't in their best interest, and later the Treaty of Tripoli with all the states involved. As orionxl also pointed out, one of the justifications for the pirates taking American sailors as slaves was that they were Christian, so it would have been really easy for Adams and Jefferson to make the whole thing about religion in an effort to rally people in the US to get behind the war. But they didn't. In fact, they made it extremely clear that religion was not what this was about and that the U.S. as a nation was not Christian and had no problem with nations of any religion based solely on that religion.


We started off so well...

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